Cockpit Building Is Simple... Errr....

[NeoMorph]

When  I first looked at the ATR 72-500 project (which I am determined to continue with) I honestly thought "Hey, how hard can it be?".

Yeah... right!

I chose the ATR as it was simpler than the Boeings and Airbuses with their powered throttle quadrants etc, etc. At least the ATR has only IAS hold and no autothrottle. Also I hate Airbus joysticks anyway.

Then I realised that as the ATR isn't a common project there aren't so many bits around for it... Getting dimensions is hard because here in the UK they are now in a big terrorist scare mode and airlines are clamping down on info flow it seems... tough times for ATR flight sim fans.

Then that centre autopilot display in the glareshield... eeek... Seems unique to ATR... Another custom job it seems. What's that? The Condition levers are actually just 4 selections and not anything like on other prop planes. Errr... Why doesn't my heading commands in FSUIPC that work with that King Air stop working on the Flight 1 ATR... Problems, problems, problems...

So hardly any parts, hardly any info... Arrrghh time. Thank god that I am now starting to get SOME good news for a change (ie thanks to Bob Reid pointing me at Ruscool has helped a lot) and the Flight 1 version of the plane is actually pretty awesome (if frustrating where FSUIPC is concerned).

Things will improve...

I won't ever be able to fly really any more because of the pain meds I have to take 24/7/365 so flight simming is the nearest I will get so I'm really determined to get this project off the ground (well sort of heh). But the more I look at the ATR, the more I realise what a big job it's going to be... But that's what is going to be half the fun... Perhaps I should start a blog on the ATR build? 

Heh... no wonder it takes cockpit builders years to build our pits. Decisions, decisions, decisions...

[ETomlin]

Yep, you're right. And, it's also the reason so many folks wind up building something different than what they initially plan to build. The LJ45 is a product of this very sort of thing. I would encourage you to consider if the ATR will be able to be built to the depth you require/expect because sometimes it's just better to realize early on that a different aircraft is much simpler and cheaper in the long run. If you are in a major money crunch, then building yourself is a great way to go but it's made even better when the aircraft is better supported. The King Air is a great aircraft for a builder on a budget for many reasons:

1) It's a default aircraft and so you have access to all the internals via FSUIPC (Same with the LJ45, Caravan and even the C172)
2) It's small enough to build in a spare room and not take up lots of space
3) It's simple to buy just a few of the vendor parts and then make the rest yourself and replace with more accurate parts as money allows. My case in point: the King Air now has a glass cockpit available and this would severely simplify the progress and cost.

So, I know you love the ATR but consider there may be a better road for the long run.

Warning: Crazy Idea Ahead!!!

Although Ive never done what Im about to suggest, have you ever considered building a big box with several monitors like 3 for visual (TripleHead2Go) and 2 more for instruments and then fly a variety of aircraft, using a store-bought throttle and GoFlight units? Sometimes, I wish I had just this so I could enjoy a fully enclosed sim, but no particular aircraft. If I didnt have all the LJ45 stuff and had little to no budget, this is definately the way I'd go just to be isolated from the real world while flying whatever aircraft. Basically a sim box that had dedicated hardware that had its own soft lighting and an exhaust fan with surround sound and a door to really isolate from the non sim world. I believe that FlyboyAndre has a very similar project to what Im suggesting here. You could take it a little further by making a very generic instrument panel, having LCDs showing instruments behind the MIP, and your 3 channel visual. Add a generic throttle and some simple panels for Lights, Gear, etc. and then at least it looks like a plane but no particular model. Just thoughts. The ATR is a great plane, but will be very much a challenge.

[jackpilot]

Just my 2¢ here,
Building a sim today is easy as 1/2/3
Building the front office of an airplane,  GA or Airliners, is not.
Unless you want to spend years at building , making parts, spending nights on software tweaking, etc, the shortest way to "Airworthiness" is to choose a bird for which most components are widely available (Hard and Soft)
I am not pushing the 737 here but:
-A 737 cockpit is not much bigger than a Commuter nose, and way smaller than an A320.
-The Throttle Quad Does not have to be motorized nor the control columns linked. Far too much work and money to mimic features which are not present in other perfectly flyable Aircrafts and unnecessary in a private non training Sim.
(just ask yourself why the TQ motorization is so popular when the Control columns motorization is not and, while you're at it, why the pedals are not also motorized  ?)
-All parts are widely available and can be mixed with real and cheap Aerospace parts.
-All softs are well proven.
Without going to a generic, why not consider  the 737 as a strong and nice base and, starting from there, make it and build YOUR aircarft the way you want it to be, within your budget and your own abilities.
With time, features can be added but the beast can be flyable in no time ...almost!

Just my 2¢ Guys...do not get up in Arms....          

[NeoMorph]

I looked at the King Air (Ruscool are doing some wonderful panels for that) and have to admit they are tempting.

Building the custom jobs for the stuff that isn't available is one of the reasons why I like going for the ATR... Have you heard that doing math puzzles keeps your mind alert well into old age? Well I find that problem solving things like this will help my brain keep from freezing up.

My electronics skill is a bit rusty, my programming skills are wayyyyyy mixed up (serves me right for learning over 25 languages/dialects) but I have already come up with ideas as how to do things like the autopilot...

I am forever getting new stuff and modding it to make it better... that is one skill that will come in handy.

At the moment I have got a LOT of information that I will need to collate, work out and understand how the ATR functions... I've already got a bunch of encoders linked to the Flight 1 ATR 72-500 and had it running. Remember I can only do heavy building work in the summer so now I have got a lot of work planning out to see if I CAN afford the project but as I don't drink, don't smoke and don't do drugs (other than a bagful from the docs) and live alone (I have the worst sleeping patterns because of my disability that I wouldn't inflict this on anyone) I really think this project is doable.

One thing that will come in handy is wiring up the panels... One of the many courses I've taken was Electronics Test And Service Mechanics... I remember doing wiring looms until my hands were red raw....

ETomlin I actually had an idea of doing something similar... Making the panel blanks and when I want to change planes I remove the masks and put on new ones. The problem with that is that quadrants are not similar (other than the big boys it seems). The condition levers on the ATR really threw me for a six at first but I have that sussed out now too.

There was one thing that has been going though my mind though... How many cockpit builders have had their cockpit catch fire? There has to be some that got their wires crossed somewhere (because things like motorised TQ's are gonna take some juice).

[jackpilot]

Good for You, we will help as much as we can if you need it.
This is a real project and I'm sure that Dean's team will help with enthousiasm.

Having a Halon bottle handy is always a good idea, even the spaghetti plate behind the row of computers can be a threat!
Cheers
JP

[NeoMorph]

Hehe... Sounds like a story in the spag plate.

I just had a clue about possible probs with this Flight 1 ATR.

So I climb to 5000ft and set the ATR AP altitude to 26,000. Turn on the AP and ALT and it shows up fine... thing is the plane instead of climbing drops DOWN to 4300ft and stays there.

OK... fiddling with turning on and off the AP. Nothing doing... I turn off the AP and take it up to 6000ft and turn the AP back on... back down to 4300ft.

Head scratching time.

Then I took a look at my Saitek Multi Panel, frowned, and switched the dial to Alt... And guess what... IT SHOWED 4300ft. The AP in the sim still showed 26,000ft and when I changed the alt in the multi panel it stayed the same.

Seems the Saitek Multi Panel and the Flight 1 ATR are not happy with each other... *facepalm*.

[NeoMorph]

I take it all back... It's possible to get the Multi Panel to work quite well with the F1 autopilot. SPAD lets you reprogram the entire system and combined with a few mouse macros and I got it working perfectly.

The display does have a few problems though. Sometimes it seems to get out of sync with the system and throws up some weird numbers (like the one time I got the Altitude to shoot up to 99990 when actually it was 16000).

The guy who wrote SPAD should be congratulated... turned an inefficient piece of kit into something awesome (was all down to the Saitek driver).

[NeoMorph]

Good for You, we will help as much as we can if you need it.
This is a real project and I'm sure that Dean's team will help with enthousiasm.

Having a Halon bottle handy is always a good idea, even the spaghetti plate behind the row of computers can be a threat!
Cheers
JP

I'm still working on my ATR design and I've decided to get a smoke detector with external trigger connections that will connect to my cockpit? The reason for this is when I get into a flight I put all my concentration into it... I have my headphones on so beeps from my smoke alarms will probably end up with me trying to figure out if there is a problem with the plane.

I have already had something similar happen. Alarm on my phone went off to remind me of an ebay auction timing out and I missed it because I spent ages trying to figure out what was wrong with FSX heh. The cockpit mod will probably link to the annunciator test circuit to flash the lights in the case of an alarm or the phone going.